Philippe Sands on '38 Londres Street,' Pinochet, and International Law

The Accidental Trilogy

• 💡 Philippe Sands discusses his latest book, "38 Londres Street," as the third installment of an interconnected trilogy, with a potential fourth book on the crime of aggression tribunal.
• 🧠 The trilogy began with "East West Street" and "The Rat Line," exploring interconnected historical narratives stemming from Sands' personal connection to Lviv (formerly Lemberg).

Intertwined Histories: Pinochet and Rauff

• 🎯 The book connects Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet with Nazi SS commander Walther Rauff, who operated mobile gas vans and later lived in Chile.
• 🕵️ Sands uncovered a letter from Rauff to Rauff's associate advising him to flee to South America, sparking a connection to the Pinochet case.
• 🇨🇱 Pinochet's regime in Chile was marked by widespread human rights abuses, including disappearances and torture, yet operated under a blanket amnesty law.

The Pinochet Case and International Law

• ⚖️ Sands recounts his involvement in the 1998 arrest of Pinochet in London, where he was asked to argue for Pinochet's immunity.
• 🗣️ He ultimately declined to represent Pinochet due to a prior public statement against immunity for former heads of state for international crimes, citing the "cab rank principle" exception.
• 🤝 Sands later acted for Human Rights Watch and the Belgian government in proceedings related to Pinochet's detention and medical records.
• 🌍 The Pinochet case significantly impacted international criminal law, particularly regarding the immunity of former heads of state before national courts, setting precedents followed in other jurisdictions.

Legal Developments and Immunity Debates

• 📜 The Nuremberg trials established that heads of state have no immunity for international crimes, a principle later reinforced by international tribunals and treaties.
• 🏛️ The House of Lords' rulings in the Pinochet case grappled with immunity before national courts, eventually establishing that immunity could be lost for international crimes.
• 🇺🇸 Sands contrasts the Pinochet case with the US Supreme Court's ruling in Trump v. United States, which grants former US presidents broad immunity, a decision he finds troubling and potentially detrimental to the international system of accountability.
• 🤝 A behind-the-scenes deal involving the British government, facilitated by Jonathan Powell, allowed Pinochet to return to Chile, contingent on evidence that he would lose his immunity there, ultimately opening the doors to justice within Chile.

Personal Connections and Detective Work

• 📍 Sands details the detective work involved in tracing Rauff's life and verifying testimonies, often relying on human accounts due to destroyed archives.
• 💔 A significant personal connection was revealed when Sands discovered his wife's cousin, Carmelo Sora, was a victim of the Pinochet regime, a fact unknown to them until the book's research phase.
• 🧐 Sands emphasizes his writing style of presenting evidence for readers to form their own conclusions, highlighting the complex and often stranger-than-fiction nature of his findings.