Open Models in 2025: China's Lead and US Response
[HPP] Nathan LambertNovember 5, 202534 min
36 connectionsΒ·40 entities in this videoβThe 2025 Open Model Landscape
- π‘ 2025 marked an inflection point for open models, driven by the release of DeepSeek R1 in January and a subsequent rapid expansion of the Chinese open model ecosystem.
- π Before 2025, Llama was the dominant default, with Mistral also gaining significant traction, while DeepSeek and Qwen were already producing extraordinary outputs.
- π Key releases in 2025 included Gemma and MOO 232b (the best fully open model with training data/code), followed by Llama 4 (which struggled) and Qwen 3 (which quickly gained traction).
- π¨π³ The summer saw a tsunami of new Chinese entrants like Minimax, Kimi, and GLM, demonstrating cutting-edge research and rapid progress.
China's Dominance and Strategy
- π Qwen's cumulative adoption metrics have started to surpass Llama, becoming the new default for a long tail of tasks and users outside Silicon Valley.
- π― Chinese companies, including Qwen, prioritize market share over profit and engage directly with users, releasing numerous models by small, dedicated teams.
- π‘ The Alibaba Cloud CEO articulated a vision of LLMs as the next operating system, highlighting the strategic importance of open models in China.
- π Chinese labs are doing cutting-edge research and releasing a mix of data and models, driven by community and executive pressure to adopt strong open models.
US Call to Action for Open Models
- πΊπΈ The speaker advocates for US investment in open models to foster innovation, support research, and reduce the concentration of power in AI.
- β Positive signs include Open GPTOSS (despite initial clunkiness) and a $100 million NSF grant to AI2 for making strong language models accessible to academics.
- π° Achieving GPT-4 level performance for fully open models, comparable to DeepSeek's 600B to trillion parameters, would require an estimated $100 million investment.
Understanding Open Model Categories
- π§© The speaker distinguishes between frontier models (e.g., OpenAI's GPT-4), open-weights models (e.g., DeepSeek, Qwen, Llama), and fully open-source models (e.g., AI2's MOO, Pythia).
- π¬ Fully open-source models are crucial for researchers needing access to training data, code, and reproducibility, which is often lacking in open-weights models.
- β οΈ Open-weights models like Llama release weights and inference code but often lack reproducible training processes or data, making them less transparent for deep research.
Future Outlook and Challenges
- π Sovereign AI is a growing concern for nations and companies, driving the need for independent compute and modeling stacks, as seen in Europe and other regions.
- π« Concerns exist regarding potential manipulation by foreign entities using open models, though the speaker believes the likelihood is currently low due to structural differences from social media.
- π‘ The proliferation of local models running on personal devices could lead to significant social evolution, necessitating deeper study of their impact on businesses and daily life.
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Whatβs Discussed
Open ModelsChinese Open Model EcosystemDeepSeek R1QwenLlamaHugging Face DownloadsSovereign AIOpen Weights ModelsFully Open Source ModelsFrontier ModelsLocal ModelsAI2 (Allen Institute for AI)Large Language Models (LLMs)US Investment in AI
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